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emilyjanelle
Posts:510
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| 05/13/2009 12:13 PM |
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david, you make a very valid point! why DO we do that? I honestly don't have a real answer, but thanks for asking it, I'll think more about it now...
and thanks, yeah, I have changed. one of my best friends told me a couple months ago that I've become "softer" (she's very literary, haha) in the past year. that's encouraging for you to say that, too. =] |
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You may as well come quiet.
- Police Maxim |
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Adelynn
Posts:189
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| 05/13/2009 9:54 PM |
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| I often say things that I don't mean to sound mean, but I still regret them... I'm trying so hard, but everything in my life has taught me to be sharp and witty and cutting. I think that sometimes, guys seem so stoic that I just want to see if they will "fight me back," so to speak. Or break down, or something , just to see if they do actually have emotions. I know that sounds really terrible. |
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"... I will pour out my Spirit upon all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy..." Acts 2.17
What If His People Prayed? |
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Nicole
Posts:552
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| 05/13/2009 10:01 PM |
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Here's a question... Why do girls think we guys are made of stone? Why does it appear as if your default position is to want to be able to say whatever you want to us, no matter how potentially insulting, but expect us to be sensitive to you? I'm honestly not trying to be accusatory here, but I am genuinely curious.
David, after reading your response (above) I'd like to apologize in general for the attitudes us females seem to have given you. I can really understand your reasons for thinking that way. i've witnessed several couples in which the girl has to have things her way and it seems she doesn't even stop to think about what she's going to say. I'm not sure i can give you a real answer for those kinds of actions, except that maybe sometimes we don't even stop to think about what comes out of our mouths. I don't buy into the comments about 'guys are stupid' or 'he's an idiot' comments. IMO, they cut deep and I strive never to say such things. But i have to tell you that not all girls think that way. (the girls on this forum for example) I am one example.
 I know that you guys have hearts and actual feelings and I know there are girls out there who strive to treat the opposite sex with as much respect and kindness as they want to be treated.
Anybody else have anything to add? girls? |
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whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain |
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Nicole
Posts:552
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| 05/13/2009 10:03 PM |
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| sorry guys, I meant to quote David then add my answer. My answer starts with David, right after the sentence ending with curious. Sorry about that. |
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whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain |
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David
Posts:499
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| 05/13/2009 10:36 PM |
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| Nicole, you're totally my favorite person for today. It's good to hear a girl say things like that. |
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Aim at heaven and you will get earth thrown in. Aim at earth and you get neither.
- C.S. Lewis |
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Nicole
Posts:552
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| 05/13/2009 10:42 PM |
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| Aw well, it's a true fact that i've witnessed. (You guys are awesome) and it's no problem. |
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whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain |
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ToNyMaN
Posts:0
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| 09/14/2009 12:01 AM |
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Haven't gotten a chance to read all of this forum but I feel like men are made to play the gentleman role.
I'm a person that will say hello to anyone, start a conversation with anyone, and will open doors, stop my car, let people pass in front of me, and stuff like that because, well, once you do something nice for someone they will notice it, and hopefully it will go around, and eventually come back to you.
As for guys and emotions, we're not STONE-HARD but we keep some emotions inside because we are supposed to be the "head" or the "guide" for our friends/wives/loves/fiances/etc., of course, this is MY point of view.
We ARE indeed human and we do have feelings, just sometimes we HAVE to or we choose to keep things inside for the benifit of others.
anyone agree? |
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MyLifeHisWill
Posts:184
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| 09/14/2009 6:14 PM |
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Well, to answer the first part of this, I go to a Christian school and guys are supposed to be gentlemen by the teacher's standards lol THis doesn't mean they always are however. Yet, guys are expected to move the tables and set up the partition and take out the trash, while the girls are given other responsibilities that don't require lugging around heavy things. However, If a guy isn't standing up to the plate, I will step in. I just think this is courteous. Men are naturally designed to be stronger than women, so that makes perfect sense. David, you seem very much against the role of men and women. You seem to desperately want women to have to act like men because it isn't "fair" - i mean, God made us different, therefore I don't see why we cant respect that. Women are capable of holding doors, giving up their seat, and lugging tables - and if needed, I dont act higher than that job, however, I think guys should be the ones to step up first....just saying.
Also, about the guys and rock thing. I can tell you why. Well...i often found myself accidently saying stuff to my ...well now ex..... ... that hurt him, but I didn't even realize it. However, to be tough, he wouldn't tell me! Then I just assumed if I teasingly said, "Babe thats so stupid" that it didnt offend him, when it acutally did. Now, I feel awful for that but guys play off that they are strong and tough and can't be hurt and when they give girl's this "tough guy" image, girls buy into it. They don't see guys as easily hurt, but invincible. So if a girl gets mad and lashes out, she expects that he can take it, when if he lashed out at her, she would puddle in sorrow. This also comes because men are naturally supposed to be the stronger one, and girl's rest in that. However, they may not be stronger emotionally. Its not right for us as girls to think we cna just say whatever cuz guys are strong, but that comes out of the general idea that guys pursue us and protect us and therefore in our eyes they are invincible - especially against you as a girl. Like, I couldn't hurt my ex - he was so much stronger than me, and I loved that, but that didn't translate emotionally. He could get just as jealous or offened as I could. And I often didn't think about that. So the things is that girls .. idk we just expect guys to be the toughest and sometimes thats not the case. |
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I don't want to just "live" I want to experience life. |
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**Jes :-)
Posts:154
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| 09/15/2009 8:34 PM |
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the reason girls think that guys are so stone hard...i think it is cuz guys(i no i said this in a different forum but i'll say it again cuz i think it's fitting for this forum to) want to stand up as the man, as a leader and a firm foundation. and by doing that we giels think that they are so well shielded that we can try to shoot at them cuz they are wearing a shield. just like a turtle you can drive over them and they still survive!! and that's what alot of girls think of guys too they can drive over them and they'll survive. sure they will on the outside but on the onside it's all broken to pieces! we need to realize that a turtle is soft on the inside! by the way guys no i don't think you are turtles!!
it irks me so much when i hear women put down men! and i think i have become more and more sensitive to it than what i used to be. awhile go a lady came to me and she was all ticked off because she had to go over to her son's house and clean up. and she's like "ya! guys they never realize it when the garbage stinks and needs to be taken out!" and on she went. i stood there and listend, after she was done i said to her "well guys defianlty don't see the details we women see, but they sure have their good points somewhere else" then she's like "ya i guess". i see that SO often how women critize men so much with the smallest thing and it has become the usual thing to put down men so much that is exactly why the men society is so run down and unstable. yes there is some men out there that still stand on firm foundation. |
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Joy
Posts:26
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| 09/16/2009 7:17 PM |
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I think the reason guys seem so stonic like is because thats what society wants them to be. Like in the FYWO book where it said that men are more likey to get angry whereas a girl is more likely to cry.
Yes, I know that men and woman each have different goals in life, however it ticks me off when some schools (Like the one MyLifeHisWill mentioned) that guys are expected to carry the heavy tables and girls arent. I mean, Im totally for equality and it just makes me madder when i think that girls still only earn 70% of what a guy would earn working. But schools like that just dont seem fair to me! Isnt there an equal ground?
And, for the record, I do try to respect the opposite sex. |
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MyLifeHisWill
Posts:184
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| 09/17/2009 7:12 AM |
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| See, I don't see the guys being the ones to do the heavy work by any means unfair. I see it as the rightful place of the sexes and thier differences. I mean, yes, I am capable if needed, but go back in American (and even other countries) history and you see that men had the jobs that required hard labor, and women had the responsibility of raising children and housework. I don't think its a bad thing...I think that women are naturally made to be a "softer" sex - yes we can totally do hard work if needed, but guys can make the initiative to do it first. |
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I don't want to just "live" I want to experience life. |
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Adelynn
Posts:516
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| 09/18/2009 9:35 AM |
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I don't know, I think that most of the "male/female roles" were created by society. In the beginning of the Bible, they were both created in God's image to rule the earth. And the argument that men were created first therefore are "above" women is pretty bad if you think about it, because if you use the order of creation to determine that, then plants and animals are still above men =]
We were talking about this in class the other day. Many women are smaller and not as strong as men- but there are also many men who are just not as strong as many women. I think that everyone should be given the benefit of the doubt and not assumed emotional, stoic, strong or weak based on their gender. |
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"Angel of Mercy, how did you find me? How did you pick me up again? Angel of Mercy, how did you move me, why am I on my feet again?" -One Republic |
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Adelynn
Posts:516
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| 09/18/2009 9:36 AM |
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| In the discussion, I think titled "Why are Guys so Weird?" or something, guys are saying they are "supposed" to be strong and hard to hurt, not that they are |
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"Angel of Mercy, how did you find me? How did you pick me up again? Angel of Mercy, how did you move me, why am I on my feet again?" -One Republic |
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emilyjanelle
Posts:510
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| 09/18/2009 12:20 PM |
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And the argument that men were created first therefore are "above" women is pretty bad if you think about it...
howso? plants and animals don't have souls, but man does. man was created first, then the woman came from man. they were both breathed into, but the fact remains, man was first. man is the head of the household. man is the leader. man is the protector.
Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— for we are members of his body. "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
- Ephesians 5:22-33
submitting does not mean to surrender or be a doormat. the feminist movement of the past 40-some years has told us that lie. the definition of submit is this:
1. to give over or yield to the power or authority of another (often used reflexively).
2. to subject to some kind of treatment or influence.
3. to present for the approval, consideration, or decision of another or others: to submit a plan; to submit an application.
4. to state or urge with deference; suggest or propose (usually fol. by a clause): I submit that full proof should be required.
in my own thoughts, if we're not (as people, as future wives of a man, as future husbands of a woman) humble enough to want to submit, be selfless, and respect one another... we're not ready to be a wife or husband yet. |
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You may as well come quiet.
- Police Maxim |
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MyLifeHisWill
Posts:184
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| 09/18/2009 3:32 PM |
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| THANKYOU EMILY JANNELLE! Women were created from man's side (rib). Thus, we are coequal before God, however, yes, women are to submit to thier husbands. Men are to take the innitiative. Men are to be the leaders. No, men arn't to "own" women as slaves, they are to LOVE THIER WIVES. To be gentle, romantic etc, but women are supposed to love thier husbands and be submissive to them....i dont get this whole femenist thing - its just pride. |
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I don't want to just "live" I want to experience life. |
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Christina
Posts:90
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| 09/18/2009 3:49 PM |
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Something else that I want to add to that, that was pointed out to me in class is this part of Ephesians 4.
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her...- 25
Husbands are supposed to sacrifice themselves for their wives, lay down their lives if the need comes for their wife. Just like Jesus did for all Christians. So if you think about who has the shorter end of the stick here?? The wife, who has to submit to her husband, which for most women would come naturally anyways? Or the husband who will lay down his life for wife if the need be, which I think he would do without question??
Think about it. It really made me think. |
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Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will recieve the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.
James 1:12
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Lizzie
Posts:0
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| 09/20/2009 10:43 AM |
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Oh, you all have brought up so many good things to discuss! I could say a whole bunch about this but I'm gonna see if I can cut it down to short and sweet. I think that girls should expect guys to act gentlemanly, but to not be surprised or hurt when they don't. I also think that guys should be gentlemen because they WANT to be. Not because they think they're obligated or because they think that girls want it from them. David, wish you could meet some girls who are not like that. They do exist. I think that when guys act like gentlemen, girls should be grateful and show their appreciation. I never get tired of guys opening the doors for me. And I try to always say thank you. And when guys act like it's the norm to do nice things for girls, that makes it all the more endearing. This applies to bf/gf couples and just plain guy/girl relationships at school, church, or otherwise. Guys don't need to be made of stone, David. Unfortunately, us girls have been fed lies through books and movies and celebrities. I along with a lot of other girls have chosen to NOT believe those lies and false stereotypes of guys, but there are still a lot of girls that are under those false impressions. It stinks, because girls that fall into the trap of believing those false stereotypes exist end up jeoprodizing girls like me who believe what guys REALLY are! People like David question how girls respond to gentlemanly behavior because they have met quite a few girls who respond poorly to it.
In the end, the goal of guys: to be a gentleman, whether the girls appreciate it or not. And don't get down on yourself, guys, if your actions go unnoticed. There are girls out there who DO appreciate the little things you do to show you care. The goal of girls: to be grateful for every little thing. To want guys to be gentlemanly, to expect it of them (because guys should be that way), and if they are not that way, they might need helping along. Now, you guys might think that that's so unfair to expect it of guys to be gentlemen, but the truth is: us girls WANT you to be! and when guys aren't gentlemen, it's not like they didn't live up to our expectations. It's more like, "oh...well i guess guys just don't know how to open doors for girls these days. That's too bad...I wish they did." It's more disappointing than it is "shame shame" on you guys. Do you understand the difference? It's like, it's too bad they aren't more ______, But we deal with it. At the same time, deep down inside we still love it when guys do little nice things for us. For example, if a girl forgets to get ketchup at the lunch line and she's ready to jump up and get it--that's you guys' chance! Jump up and say, "I'll get it for you." That's a simple, nice thing to do. And you know, some girls would later talk in study hall or something whispering, "He got up and got me ketchup today! [sigh] He's so nice!" But that's just because you do it for that one girl. If you open the door for more than one girl, or if you get the "forgotten ketchup" or whatever for more than one girl, then that means you are a true gentleman and the girls won't be thinking "romantic lover just got me ketchup" they'll be thinking "nice gentleman just got me ketchup". Ok, so so much for my short and sweet goal!  What's ya'll's responses to what I just said? I'm quite curious! This is an important thread for both guys and girls. |
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Lizzie
Posts:0
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| 09/20/2009 10:53 AM |
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| Remember, Eve was not created from Adam's head so that she could rule over him. She was not created from Adam's foot so that she could be abused by his authority. She was created from his side, so that she would be equal with him. Yes, husbands are the heads of their housholds. But, a husband and wife should always be a TEAM. Just because men were created first, does not mean they are more important. God created man and then said, "He needs something to COMPLETE him." THAT's when He created woman. If you say to me that God created man first and therefore man is more important, I would say to you, "God created woman last because He saved the best for last." JUST KIDDING! The point is, God does not play favorites. He has a special place in his heart for both man and woman. I think guys and girls should be careful how much they accelerate one sex over the other. Both sexes were made differently and uniquely. We should never say one gender is better than the other. |
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Joy
Posts:26
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| 09/21/2009 6:44 PM |
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| I totally agree with you Elizibeth! And the whole ketchup/guy thing. Your right, woman were created to stand by her husbands side. But to also be submissive to them. |
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Nicole
Posts:552
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| 10/09/2009 8:53 PM |
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Just if you guys are interested: In a book i was reading, i came across these verses you guys are talking about where God creates woman to be a 'helper' for man. The original Hebrew word for 'helper', the word we use in the English language, is ezer kenegdo. Basically, a more translation for ezer is 'strength' or 'power'. Therefore Genesis 2:8 could more relevantly say: "I will make a power (or strength) corresponding to man."
Here's the link if you want more detail: http://www.godswordtowomen.org/ezerkenegdo.htm |
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whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain |
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